i had a little uproar in the comments the other day when a reader wrote in to say that my traveling vine swatch for the next “little nothings” scarf looked a lot like fleegle’s current shawl project, the lovely hanabi.
another reader chimed in with an even more disgruntled comment, including a link to fleegle’s blog, which i had not had the good fortune to know about previously.
(an aside) now, when a person leaves a comment with one or more links in it, that comment will be held in my akismet spam filter until i approve it. i check the filter once a day. so if a comment does not show up immediately after posting, it is NOT because i’ve deleted it (i never do that unless it’s spam), but because it is being held for moderation.
this second person’s comment was less than gracious, implying that i took the idea for my scarf from fleegle with complete knowledge of my actions and the intention to steal.
since that comment included a link, it was held in the spam filter. when it did not appear for all to see, the person then proceeded to leave more comments which became increasingly accusatory, and well, nasty; they even threatened to post their accusations on ravelry.
at this point, i had still not had a chance to view the comments and respond to them (sorry! i was out teaching til after 9pm!), or to contact fleegle to talk about the issue.
when finally i got home that night and had a chance to sort out the sequence of comments, i answered each one in the order it arrived (as i do with almost all comments), and then i contacted fleegle to see what she thought, and to offer to rework my scarf project if she found it conflicted with her own design.
she had also gotten some email concerning my “theft” of her design, and had come over to check out my project. she was totally gracious about the whole thing, and completely set my mind at ease. the two projects are not similar, and we think we are not even using the same stitches (it’s a little hard to tell, but i got mine out of a book and she made hers up, so we think not).
we decided to chalk the issue up to—at most—coincidence, which is much more common than you’d think among designers of all kinds. seriously, go take a look at laura’s blog; she’s working on a new stole using the same stitch i am, and she’s completely chuffed that we’re both doing something different with it.
in fact, designers have a special name for a coincidence such as this—it’s called a trend.
there are so many things to say about a situation like this, from several different perspectives.
first of all, using a public forum such as comments or ravelry, as the first channel of communication in any matter, poses a number of problems—especially if that communication includes accusation and/or threats.
by accusing someone publicly of wrongdoing, before checking the facts or assessing both sides of a story, the accuser risks committing slander, which is a serious offense. they also risk being publicly put in the wrong, and having their own credibility damaged.
in addition, this channel of communication is fraught with inefficiency and misinterpretation. in the case above, for instance, the comment was not seen for many hours and therefore could not be addressed in a timely way, thus creating more animosity on the part of the accuser. and if it had occurred on ravelry, it may never have been seen or addressed at all by someone who could do something to ameliorate the problem, and the parties involved would have little chance of containing the spread of misinformation and damage.
it would have been much more efficient to send an email of inquiry to both parties (fleegle and me) to understand the facts and obtain information about our intentions and reactions to the issue. using language of inquiry, rather than accusation, would facilitate either a quick compromise or other settlement, and no one would walk away as the bad guy.
to that end, i have an email button in my sidebar that anyone is free to use, and i think it is well known that i am diligent about addressing all email that comes in from my site.
secondly, it is extremely disturbing to me lately to see the speed at which people become irate and even belligerent toward one another, and the ease with which inflammatory remarks are flung about among our community in forums, mailing lists, and in comments. there is an incredible lack of restraint and respect shown toward bloggers, designers, publishers, retailers, and individual knitters. the language used is often horrifying—and i don’t mean just swear words—in its vehemence, pitch, and tone.
and my question when i see it is: what does this behavior get you??
it’s quick and easy to participate in reputation-bashing through a live forum, where one may not necessarily have to wait around for a rebuttal, or suffer the indignity of a return volley. it’s one way to vent, but does it allow people to separate the issue at hand from the force of other frustrations and bitternesses in their lives? and does venting in this way solve the problem?
i have seen it said that jess and casey need to figure out a way to severely limit inflammatory posting on revelry, but what about users? are we capable of acquitting ourselves with success when it comes to complex knitting instructions and techniques, but not able to manage a civil discourse the forums? do we really need or want that kind of policing?
and thirdly, there is the whole subject of originality that is brought into question by this incident.
no designer worth their salt has anything to gain by stealing ideas from another, and in fact, doing so can greatly hurt one’s reputation. designers prefer to be known for original interpretations of what they see around them.
while many designers are inspired by each other’s work, and are working with a similar tool set (in the case of knit designers, this could be stitch patterns, techniques, or garment shapes), most designers still seek to create a fresh, unique body of work that sets them apart from the crowd.
this approach arms one with the best chances of an artistically satisfying and financially viable outcome, which in turn, enables one to continue working and producing.
that said, the tool set available to designers within a given discipline has limits, is not protected by copyright, is shared, and is constantly shifting and changing. no designer, for instance, can claim ownership of a stitch motif; these elemental pieces of our tool set are not protected by copyright. therefore, they are available for all of us to use at any time.
if seven of us choose to use the feather and fan stitch in a scarf on the same day, and to publish the pattern for it, we are allowed.
how we would approach the problem of differentiating ourselves from each other becomes the design question then (or not; it’s up to us). our individual solutions to using the stitch in a fresh way, and the unique written instructions for doing so, are what constitute our intellectual property, and are therefore covered by copyright law. the fact that all of us used the same stitch is not.
of course, from a business standpoint, one may choose to walk away from the possibility of a coincidence turning into a glut of the market for that item. or from the risk of having the public compare designs. or from the threat of copying.
in our case, fleegle, laura, and i have given each other a high-five and agreed that we are intrigued by each other’s work, and looking forward to our various outcomes.
and i am quite sure they will be different, and wholly unique to each of us.
thanks for reading this entry. i know it was long and lacking the usual color of cheerful photos. but i think it is timely, and i hope you found it of interest.
i’ll be back later with lots of scarf photos, a couple of new patterns, and the usual hilarity of my own stumbling “process” in design.
thank you.
149 thoughts on “fleegle and i are good: a long reflection”
Sorry!!! You do have the ‘e’!! My humblest apologies – it’s this irtfa’a – I’m obsessed. Can’t even eat or sleep.
Blame it on old age…
Hear, hear! Thanks for taking the time to speak out in support of original thinking (even if it may or may not look like what other people are doing…). 😉
Very, very well written. Thank you. I feel that through your post I have bared my soul too, because i wanted to say everything you just said.
Your response to this “brouhaha” is as classy and elegant as you and your designs. Brava! Looking forward to the next set of goodies coming our way!!
I realize that you have no idea who I am, I troll silently through the night drooling over your breathtaking lace designs 🙂 but I just had to come out of hiding to commend you on your classy response to the absolute douche-bagged-ness of the hecklers from your post the other day. Jumping to conclusions and making unfounded and unresearched accusations and threats are hallmark traits of the jealous and bitter. I realize that it’s hard to let that kind of treatment not bother you but please know that there are many, MANY, of us out here that have an immense amount of respect for your creativity and designs. By the way, I am SOOO in love with your Tiffany Blue scarf, it’s obscene 🙂 Keep up the amazing work!
hi Anne – sorry you had to go through that crap but you handled it with great grace! It’s interesting to see how different designers come up with very similar things in a short period of time without knowing what anyone else was doing – sorta like a particular idea is in the “air.” I read fleegle’s blog and never saw the similarity between the lace myself. I was surprised to read that *you* were surprised at how uncivil things seem to be getting on the internet – it’s always been that way! Writing on the internet is very dis-inhibiting for many people – being faceless and anonymous they say things they wouldn’t dare say to your face and there are little or no consequences to them. More than one great knitting group on yahoo has been felled by flames and nastiness. Ignore these loons and continue on, knowing that you and your work are appreciated and admired by 99.9% of us.
Well put, Anne. Life goes by so quickly, we all need to be reminded to stop, take a breath, and think before acting sometimes.
I dunno, is there something in the water? Seriously, when did knitters get so MEAN?
Frankly, there are only so many ways to configure a knit and a purl and it’s inevitable that some designs will be very similar.
I designed a pair of socks that I never saw anywhere before the design…afterwards I saw the same design or a close variant EVERYWHERE!
Wonderfully worded and beautifully handled!
You are a great example of what I used to adore about the online
knitting community.
These days I stay away from all *forums*
and disscussions on Ravelry and have even resorted to going to fiber festivals very early or very late (or not at ALL)to avoid the scathing comments as people peruse the labors of love of the vendors.
My LYS is now beginning to feel like an *entitlement zone* as people expect nothing short of five star spa treatment and a first name hand massage.
I hope your sanity is a swing back in the right direction.
Bless YOU!
Very well put! I’ve seen threads in Ravelry and other forums get completely out of hand in a matter of minutes. I back out of those threads quietly and click ignore. I’m not going to have a few ugly people ruin my knitting and visiting time.
well said, and i’m glad that you and fleegle were able to work things out. there can be such a tendency to react to things, that sometimes small issues get overblown.
i’m always a bit astounded by the way the internet brings out nastiness in people. i don’t quite understand the disconnect between what is online and ‘the real world’. at work, if i have an issue with something or someone, i have to be polite and thoughtful about whatever i say – i can’t just rant or spout off because i’m peeved. this actually happened this week – a product rep went around our backs with a client and i had to call him and let him know – firmly but in a professional manner – that what he did was inappropriate and we were not happy. i couldn’t just spout off and say ‘you’re terrible because you undercut us’ or tell everyone else (i.e. the client) ‘he’s such a terrible person.’ not only would this have been ineffective, we would have looked bad. yet too often people don’t seem to transfer this sort of thinking over to the ‘net. i sometimes consider myself guilty of speaking without thinking (which usually involves an embarrassing faux pas) but online, there seems to be too much typing without thinking.
Anne – I enjoy your blog for a number of reasons. The knitting, the designs, your sense of color. Your designs just blow me away. I have every intention to knit one of your shawls as soon as I finish my wip’s. I have commented before never expecting that you would have the time to respond. This brings me to the reason I read your blog, you are a class act. I don’t know you personally but you sense of decency comes through loud and clear.
I’m sorry this hahppened to you but we got your back!
And, personally, I don’t see the similarities.
Brava! Anne, ou are thoughtful, eloquent, and a peacemaker…isn’t knitting supposed to bring us peace and joy? Thank you for so graciously reminding me of that, and teaching me, as you do in every entry, something about designing, knitting, and being creative and authentic. Cheers!
Thanks for your gracious example, Anne. 🙂
Thank you very much for writing this entry. it was very well said!! I have been clicking back and forth between your scarf and Fleegle’s site to try to look for the similarities, and I don’t see it. Thank you for all the great writings, photos, and wonderful patterns!!
Anne, dear, you must have been “ready to burst” after reading through those comments. I credit you with writing a thoughtful, intelligent response. Well done! And this outpouring of support from your readers must be gratifying and validating.
(new email address – same me in Vermont)
Some folks just can’t resist a good “blamestorm”, and pile on like football players on a hapless kicker. Having experienced this at work (seriously 47 emails from four people complaining about the same damn thing over a 90 min email absence? The hell?), I empathize. Would that intarwebs etiquette be a prereq to wandering the electronic byways, you know? Nice example of cooperation and good communication on the part of the three designers!
I’ve always found your designs so graceful. It shouldn’t surprise me, then, to read of your very graceful handling of a somewhat ugly situation. I continue to be impressed with your work and your character. Well done. And I’m sorry that the whole thing undoubtedly took away from precious knitting time.
I almost wasn’t going to comment when I saw how many others already had (knowing how meticulous you are about responding to comments) but I had to say that this is the most articulate, civilized and graceful discussion of the issue of civil language and behavior in cyberspace I have ever read, and thank you for taking the time to set it down.
Anne, I don’t understand how one can accuse you of stealing the pattern. A link to a similar design is not a sufficient proof. Well, all lace patterns are combinations of knit, purl, yarn over etc, aren’t they? Having seen your beautiful scarf I felt I had seen a similar pattern before. I opened an Estonian book of lace patterns (published in 1995) and found two very similar patterns. So what? It would be absurd to assume that either you or the author of the book have “stolen” the pattern: presumably, you haven’t have a clue that such a book exists. Do what you are doing, your work is so impressive!
I totally love your thoughts on this issue! What you said is so right. It’s really easy to shoot off the cuff, but is it the right thing to do? There is a saying – “Think before you act.” Would that we all do more thinking, and carefully consider how we word our thoughts, before letting these out to the public. Sometimes it’s better to let our thoughts remain hidden if the results might end up in a world of hurt for all.
Indeed, you are a class act, Anne.
I hope that the person who was so irate duly apologized, but I would not be surprised if they just disappeared. Perhaps they will learn when they take up a “cause” to fully check their facts before going on their tirade.
And, you know, the phrase “Great minds think alike” is based in solid scientific fact. All over the world, inventors often create the same enormous concept at exactly the same moment…. with absolutely no interaction.
The integrity of your life speaks for itself my friend. Be not concerned.
Anne, I am sorry you had to be subjected to the ill behaviour of what my mother would have called “an ill-loved child”. She believes any loved child would have parents caring enough to teach them good maners:-)
Your work is beautifull and your response rises above the petinesss of some people.
Amen. And thank you.
Beautifully done.
Well spoken. Well said. Beautifully articulated. and all other accolades for addressing a difficult issue head on. I have noticed the “mean speak” trend here and there o blogs, forums and etc, and it always saddens and disheartens me. I have had a crazy design/production schedule this last month and just got back to reading all my favourite blogs today, and wow, look at all the events! So, three cheers for Anne!
Amen! Some people have WAAAYYY too much time on their hands and spend it so unwisely.
Thank you for not throwing your hands up in the air and giving up your blog or your designs…I’d sorely miss them if they (& you) were gone.
I don’t understand how those leaving the accusatory comments could have come to the conclusion that you based your travelling vine pattern on Fleegle’s feather and fan shawl??? Considering they’re interested in knitting enough to read knitting blogs, I would have expected them to be able to tell the difference. It was very gracious of you not to comment on this. I can’t say I would have done the same when publicly attacked and I admire your restraint. Well done.
Graciously and wisely said. I’m impressed by the way you handled this.
LOVE the new scarf designs, by the way, and the chance to check out Fleegle, whom I’d never seen before.
Well said.
I never understood why some people think they can use blog comments to accuse and attack. In my opinion, it’s kind of cowardly.
One thing I love about knitting is taking that same tool/skill set and seeing what everyone can do with it. It’s part of the fun.
Thank you for this post… you’re not the only one concerned about the trend of “Avenge now! Flail now! Consider… eh, AVENGE! MORE! NOW NOW NOW!!!”
Your elegant response to this… situation? kerfuffle? is one that, in an ideal world, could be bottled and gently ladled all over the internet… goodness knows it could use a whole lot of calmness, rationality, and above all patience. Especially these days– we aren’t all wired for 24/7 internet access (and I really hope we aren’t, ever ever ever) and the most disturbing part of this is the attempt to hold others hostage to the über-speedy response, no matter what else might be going on. Like work. Or any other parts of an actual life.
Um. This is getting a bit long… too much of this nonsense going on lately, and nerves have been struck. Anyway. Well done, and thanks again for writing this post. I’d totally bake you delicious treats for a month, were there a non-fiddly way to get them to you.
Thank you for a well-reasoned and reasonable discussion of this problem. Daily life is frustrating, but as you say, what does this angry behavior *get* anyone.
Anne I have alyways admired you as a designer and person, but after reading that thoughtful and insightful post I not admire you deeply as a potential role model.
Over the past week I have observed how threads as you described can escalate in to mob rule and was horrified.
You have gone a long way to restoring some of my equilibrium and faith in humanity. Posting should be like DIY, measure twice, cut once. Words do cut and people should remember that.
I love your ‘little nothings’ range, very much Anne. Keep up all the good work. I don’t know Laura, but know for sure that you and Fleagle are nothing but Ladies through and through 🙂
Keep well. 🙂
not = now, apologies
Well said, Anne. I’m glad the issue was resolved to everyone’s satisfaction, and I hope the irate commenter is sufficiently embarrassed by the situation to give it some extra thought next time they are tempted to jump on that high horse.
Oh dear. What a mess! I’m so sorry that this happened to you–but so pleased that your cool head prevailed. 🙂
Very well said!
Honestly, I’m surprised that MORE patterns by different designers don’t have more similarity, given the “set tools”, as you put it so eloquently. Since stitch patterns do not have copyright, it’s only natural that designers may, at times, use the same stitch patterns in their designs. I’m pretty disturbed by this flaring up of what appears to me to be an inflated feeling of “entitlement” of people on ravelry, as seen in regards to “free” patterns that may have disappeared, etc., and snap judgements made. It’s like reading the tabloids and believing that they are the truth, always. In fact, I’m AFRAID at times to post in the forums, for fear of the witchhunting coming over my way. Thank you, Anne, for adressing this increasingly serious issue with grace and eloquence. Keep on designing!
It’s very depressing to note the speed with which witch hunts begin. You have handled this openly and gracefully – much like your knitting. Thank you.
Well said. I was also a ‘victim’ like this; not on my knitting blog, but on my ‘other’ blog because I linked to a knitter’s blog and created a post on mine based on something she said that I had a different view about. She retaliated by writing something unpleasant and linking to me, creating all kinds of nasty comments by people that had never seen my blog before! While I did have some supporters, and hopefully new readers, I was surprised at the attitude of some people. Just because you can hear a conversation around you doens’t mean you NEED to inject your opinion!
Great post!
It’s the same in cooking. There are only so many ways you can roast a chicken and, yet, how many cookbooks feature a recipe for roasted chicken?
The problem I have with the tone of some of the “advice” being so freely handed out is that the posters seem to not realize that they aren’t speaking to a five-year-old who decided to paint in the living room even though they know better. They are speaking to a fellow adult who is entitled to their own opinions.
Brava! Your response was graceful, thoughtful and carefully considered, as any of us would have expected. The fact that you owed no one an explanation makes it doubly so. I don’t always go through all the comments here and missed the accusation. Oddly enough, I had seen the post on Ravelry and didn’t make the connection. No names or specifics were given, only a reference to a Famous Designer. It was a very short-lived thread, mercifully, and most of the posts wisely pointed out that all the facts weren’t known. What a bizarre turn of events. Sorry it had to happen to you.
What a classy lady you are, Anne…
Keep on keepin’ on!
Well said – however I still not get how people can become so heated… for really not such a big thing to start with.
Let’s keep our calm everyone. We are not saving lives here !!!
Beautifully said and very gracefully handled Anne. It’s sad how much of this seems to be making the rounds out in blogland and on Ravelry. I’m sorry this happened to you. Thanks for putting it out there for people to see, and hopefully providing some “stop and think” before pounding out their poison pen e-mails and pushing SEND.
Ditto all the comments on grace and class. I want to say,though, that it is not enough to just wonder why people are so mean these days, nor to say they have too much time on their hands. And I think we can be assured that the commenter is not reading these comments. What troubles me is how justified people feel that they are. The commenter felt justified that the conclusion to which she had jumped was correct and unassailable. It’s the unwillingness to consider that there may be other points of view that is troubling and, yes, is kind of epidemic in the world all around us. Were I innocent of such self-justification, self-righteousness, and conclusion-jumping I could, I suppose, cast aspersions. I am not innocent of any of the above and I feel for all involved in this tangle. You, Ann, and your accuser; all of us who have ever behaved this way, because we all have.
“What I’m worried about is the quick decent into mediocrity I see happening on the Ravelry forums.”
I posted a response
on Ravelry.
Just one more knitter who prefers serene, rational discussion here to thank you for this post. Well handled and well said. I love your designs and Fleegle’s and am so happy that you are both working and maintain amicable ties despite someone’s attempts to pit you against each other.
I’m sorry that you got caught up in someone’s lack of understanding about knitting design. It really is too bad that people are so quick to accuse, especially in a craft where designs overlap so frequently. I have seen several patterns for the print ‘o the wave stole; there are several versions online, I bought one from a yarn store that said they’d made it up, and most recently I discovered the stitch pattern in a Duchrow book from the early 1900’s. I don’t think that anyone “stole” the pattern; it has just resurfaced several times as a natural (and beautiful!) extension of the vine pattern. When we lose our openness to sharing, we lose the freedom to create. Please, continue to create, and I doubt that anyone that knows your blog or your work (which is incredibly unique, by the way…) will pay much heed to the mudslinging, or allow it to go unchallenged. Knit on!
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