i had a little uproar in the comments the other day when a reader wrote in to say that my traveling vine swatch for the next “little nothings” scarf looked a lot like fleegle’s current shawl project, the lovely hanabi.
another reader chimed in with an even more disgruntled comment, including a link to fleegle’s blog, which i had not had the good fortune to know about previously.
(an aside) now, when a person leaves a comment with one or more links in it, that comment will be held in my akismet spam filter until i approve it. i check the filter once a day. so if a comment does not show up immediately after posting, it is NOT because i’ve deleted it (i never do that unless it’s spam), but because it is being held for moderation.
this second person’s comment was less than gracious, implying that i took the idea for my scarf from fleegle with complete knowledge of my actions and the intention to steal.
since that comment included a link, it was held in the spam filter. when it did not appear for all to see, the person then proceeded to leave more comments which became increasingly accusatory, and well, nasty; they even threatened to post their accusations on ravelry.
at this point, i had still not had a chance to view the comments and respond to them (sorry! i was out teaching til after 9pm!), or to contact fleegle to talk about the issue.
when finally i got home that night and had a chance to sort out the sequence of comments, i answered each one in the order it arrived (as i do with almost all comments), and then i contacted fleegle to see what she thought, and to offer to rework my scarf project if she found it conflicted with her own design.
she had also gotten some email concerning my “theft” of her design, and had come over to check out my project. she was totally gracious about the whole thing, and completely set my mind at ease. the two projects are not similar, and we think we are not even using the same stitches (it’s a little hard to tell, but i got mine out of a book and she made hers up, so we think not).
we decided to chalk the issue up to—at most—coincidence, which is much more common than you’d think among designers of all kinds. seriously, go take a look at laura’s blog; she’s working on a new stole using the same stitch i am, and she’s completely chuffed that we’re both doing something different with it.
in fact, designers have a special name for a coincidence such as this—it’s called a trend.
there are so many things to say about a situation like this, from several different perspectives.
first of all, using a public forum such as comments or ravelry, as the first channel of communication in any matter, poses a number of problems—especially if that communication includes accusation and/or threats.
by accusing someone publicly of wrongdoing, before checking the facts or assessing both sides of a story, the accuser risks committing slander, which is a serious offense. they also risk being publicly put in the wrong, and having their own credibility damaged.
in addition, this channel of communication is fraught with inefficiency and misinterpretation. in the case above, for instance, the comment was not seen for many hours and therefore could not be addressed in a timely way, thus creating more animosity on the part of the accuser. and if it had occurred on ravelry, it may never have been seen or addressed at all by someone who could do something to ameliorate the problem, and the parties involved would have little chance of containing the spread of misinformation and damage.
it would have been much more efficient to send an email of inquiry to both parties (fleegle and me) to understand the facts and obtain information about our intentions and reactions to the issue. using language of inquiry, rather than accusation, would facilitate either a quick compromise or other settlement, and no one would walk away as the bad guy.
to that end, i have an email button in my sidebar that anyone is free to use, and i think it is well known that i am diligent about addressing all email that comes in from my site.
secondly, it is extremely disturbing to me lately to see the speed at which people become irate and even belligerent toward one another, and the ease with which inflammatory remarks are flung about among our community in forums, mailing lists, and in comments. there is an incredible lack of restraint and respect shown toward bloggers, designers, publishers, retailers, and individual knitters. the language used is often horrifying—and i don’t mean just swear words—in its vehemence, pitch, and tone.
and my question when i see it is: what does this behavior get you??
it’s quick and easy to participate in reputation-bashing through a live forum, where one may not necessarily have to wait around for a rebuttal, or suffer the indignity of a return volley. it’s one way to vent, but does it allow people to separate the issue at hand from the force of other frustrations and bitternesses in their lives? and does venting in this way solve the problem?
i have seen it said that jess and casey need to figure out a way to severely limit inflammatory posting on revelry, but what about users? are we capable of acquitting ourselves with success when it comes to complex knitting instructions and techniques, but not able to manage a civil discourse the forums? do we really need or want that kind of policing?
and thirdly, there is the whole subject of originality that is brought into question by this incident.
no designer worth their salt has anything to gain by stealing ideas from another, and in fact, doing so can greatly hurt one’s reputation. designers prefer to be known for original interpretations of what they see around them.
while many designers are inspired by each other’s work, and are working with a similar tool set (in the case of knit designers, this could be stitch patterns, techniques, or garment shapes), most designers still seek to create a fresh, unique body of work that sets them apart from the crowd.
this approach arms one with the best chances of an artistically satisfying and financially viable outcome, which in turn, enables one to continue working and producing.
that said, the tool set available to designers within a given discipline has limits, is not protected by copyright, is shared, and is constantly shifting and changing. no designer, for instance, can claim ownership of a stitch motif; these elemental pieces of our tool set are not protected by copyright. therefore, they are available for all of us to use at any time.
if seven of us choose to use the feather and fan stitch in a scarf on the same day, and to publish the pattern for it, we are allowed.
how we would approach the problem of differentiating ourselves from each other becomes the design question then (or not; it’s up to us). our individual solutions to using the stitch in a fresh way, and the unique written instructions for doing so, are what constitute our intellectual property, and are therefore covered by copyright law. the fact that all of us used the same stitch is not.
of course, from a business standpoint, one may choose to walk away from the possibility of a coincidence turning into a glut of the market for that item. or from the risk of having the public compare designs. or from the threat of copying.
in our case, fleegle, laura, and i have given each other a high-five and agreed that we are intrigued by each other’s work, and looking forward to our various outcomes.
and i am quite sure they will be different, and wholly unique to each of us.
thanks for reading this entry. i know it was long and lacking the usual color of cheerful photos. but i think it is timely, and i hope you found it of interest.
i’ll be back later with lots of scarf photos, a couple of new patterns, and the usual hilarity of my own stumbling “process” in design.
thank you.
149 thoughts on “fleegle and i are good: a long reflection”
Thank you for taking the time to write all this up. I’ve always been amazed at how designers can pick up the same basics and then make amazingly different objects from them. Keep on!
Anne, well said. I comment to my husband regularly about how people need to take heed in what they say on e-mails, blogs, ravelry, etc. It is easily misinterpreted or misunderstood. And the quickness with which these people blow off steam is mindblowing. BTW I believe if you’re a moderator on a ravelry group you hold a lot of responsibility on “moderating” what people say.
As always, love your work. Currently working on Obstacles and can’t wait to finish to start next project. You’re one talented woman!
Kathy-Kansas City
Dear Anne…I commend you for being a totally CLASS ACT!! The language that you chose to address this issue and the spirit with which you infused your narrative are both exemplary. Thank you for being such a good, GOOD person…
Very well said. I have often wished for a little more self-restraint from some members of the knitting community, and this week’s events have shown that there’s a real need for it. Thank you, Anne.
Delurking to say: First of all – you are a great writer; Second – Thank you for such an intelligent response to an aggravating situation.
Well done.
Hallo Anne,
Very nice to read your calm, clear story. No insult can ever be so strong as a well-thought and good formulated peaceful reaction to it. Thanks for that!
Flora
Thanks for your forbearance and positive outlook. Your restraint and dignity when under attack are much to your credit. I have seen far too much nastiness in the knitting world recently (a world where I hadn’t seen all that much in the past) and am glad for reason and moderation on your part, as well as on Fleegle’s and Laura’s.
I agree, you have addressed the issue with class and grace. Two traits that have been lacking in many of the forums lately.
I find that I love ravelry as a database, but I am becoming increasingly less a fan of the forums, for this exact issue. People choose the oddest things to get upset about, putting so much negative energy into the world is just a bad thing. Thanks for putting some of it to rest, without adding more.
And how! My friends and I have the discussion about people’s behavior on blogs and Ravalry on a regular basis. It confounds us that there are people that continue to be rude and insensitive online. I don’t understand where this behavior comes from or why people feel the need to function without manners. Ravelry is supposed to be a collaborative site for knitters to learn and grow their skills, not a place to put people down and cause unneeded drama.
Anne – Please keep doing what you do. Your patterns are fantastic! I can’t wait until the new scarves are out.
Well said, well done, class act!
I hate that this happened to you and I’m sorry. But you responded with your usual grace and elegance and you should be proud.
clap clap clap
I’m glad you got to the bottom of things with Fleegle and Laura. It’s interesting – I’ve seen it happen multiple times before, and interestingly, it seems that it’s always the third party “policer” who comes out looking the worst, and yet it continues. (Also, I know that I myself have to regulate what I read on Ravelry because it IS very easy to become inflamed and irate about something when you only hear one side, so I limit my involvement in the hopes that I don’t fly off the handle unreasonably.)
Anyway, keep on keepin’ on, lady, you make pretty things.
I agree….very well thought out response and classy to boot. I hope others learn from this.
Well said! I hope that as online communities grow and florish, topics like these are brought up and kept at the forefront of conversations because it is *so* easy to move into a group mentality that can rip people apart.
And I’m looking forward to the pattern for that fabulous red alpaca scarf, so get to work! =)
Oh gosh, you are so way more patient than I am but I admire you for that 10000 times over!!
BTW, yours and fleegle’s are completely different!
Way to address the issue with class! It isn’t surprising that people can point a finger so easily as long as they remain anonymous. Isn’t it funny that the commenters felt they could admonish you very publicly – and even make threats to continue it on Ravelry – but don’t have the guts to publish their names.
I’m sorry to hear that this happened to you Anne. Your response was delivered with grace and class. I would have expected nothing less from you.
*stepping up to the podeum* ahem….first off, Anne, does this mean your not gonna “steal” my knitted thong pattern?? I’m shocked, really *rolling my eyes*…now, onto more of the issue. You responded far more professionally then what I would have as I am sure you are still trying to decifer those 4 letter words I used last night regarding this, secondly, c’mon people, if THIS is what is important to you in life….with all the problems life has and with each day being hard at BEST, you mean to tell me you can only find yourself browsing the net and blogs trying to “bust” a designer for pattern stealing?? Gimme a break. Seriously, I bet if you polled 100 designers at any given point, at least 5 of them will be using a similar stitch pattern, whaddya gonna do, spank them? (I know that is a set up LOL) I wish that was all I had to worry about in life. *stepping down from the podeum*…..Oh, and Anne….before I end this…I just gotta say…rock it out my friend!!!
Oh no, what a horrid thing to have happen! I missed it as I don’t usually read the comments. I totally agree with what you had to say (and so nicely and calmly!). I’m also a bit baffled about people who freak out about stuff and run to Ravelry for a solution, especially in the case of business issues that they feel haven’t been addressed “promptly” enough by email and rather than use the telephone (the old way we used to contact businesses), they do something bordering on slander. God forbid anyone skips reading their email for a day!
I’m sorry that someone chose to address their concerns in a public forum. Anyone who knows you, knows that you would never do such a thing.
Your post was gracious and addressed the issue tactfully. Kudo’s grrl!
I agree that the internet has gone a long way in letting people forget their manners at times. It is easy to shoot off a nasty comment….much less so when it has to be said face to face. This has been the downside of internet technology for sure 🙁
Dear Anne,
I am a great fan of yours, and not only because your work is consistently beautiful. I am a fan because it is always obvious that your work comes from a deep appreciation of the nature of the world and the nature of the art, and it would not occur to me to question your integrity. And, after all, it is all just colorful string looped together over and over again, a metaphor for life itself. If I happen upon a pattern online that grabs my attention, and perhaps my wallet, as opposed to another that might be very similar, that is called randomness, and that randomness is what life and art are made of. Please continue inspiring so many of us with your work, and try to ignore the not-so-giving ones who would unravel it.
Cynthia
Thank you for your voice of reason.
Oh dear. I’m sadden that this particular genre of nastiness – which has been cropping up quite a bit lately – made its way to you as well. I don’t really understand how you could ever be accused of anything like this though. Considering how generous you are with photographs and thoughtful posts throughout your design and swatching process, it’s clear that your work is just that – YOUR work.
And very lovely work it is too….
As others have said, you are a class act. Bravo!
Applause!!! Kudos!!! A very, VERY timely post!!!
I’m so sorry you were at the receiving end of this epidemic of wrongful and hurtful accusations and inflammatory remarks.
Heart you!!
Thanks for a well-reasoned and written discussion of issues. It also serves as a good reminder to me as I sent off two irritated responses to issues today (not-blog or knitting related). When I’m cross, I’m not good at rewording in a milder fashion, though I try to delay sending till I’m calm.
A-MEN.
As someone whose very job exposes me to internet whack-jobs, I only wish I could deliver such a coup de grace with that much grace and style.
Nicely handled.
I agreee with DebbieKnitter.
The complainer must have a sad and lonely life.
Anne, Thank you for a well written, intelligent comment. Your knitting and designing is very beautiful.
Thank you Anne for taking the time to post this – It needs to be said! So many people are so quick to post things in comments and forums that they would NEVER say in person. The anonymity gives people courage, but sometimes not in a good way …
Well said, well done! You are, indeed, the voice of reason and spot on with your assessment of the situation. You are, by far, my favorite designer, Anne. Keep doing what you do so very well-providing us with the most gorgeous patterns anywhere. I am sorry you were subjected to this ridiculous blather. However, you rose above the situation with grace and poise.
Well thought out, and well said.
I read both your blog and Fleegle’s regularly, and had not caught the similarity. But even if I had, I would have thought “coincidence”, not “copycat” – my brain just doesn’t think that way.
Somebody famous once said “When you look for the bad in people, you will surely find it”. It frustrates me to no end when people’s initial reaction to something like this is a negative one.
Hmm, I suppose that’s one of the downfalls of being famous – you’re occasionally caught by the blog paparazzi for doing something “infamous” (not really, ha ha!). Seriously, that’s not very nice of people to just assume that you deliberately stole an idea. OBVIOUSLY they must not be your regular blog readers, because those of us who adore your designs know how much work and thought you put into every one.
Way to respond with your usual dignity and graciousness!
So sorry you have been flamed. I have long enjoyed your blog and have recommended your patterns to numerous people.
I have been alarmed at the venom to be found on the Ravelry boards when as a whole it is such a tremendous resource. I find that more and more I am not spending my time on the boards at all if there is any indication that accusations are being flung about. (Perhaps there should be a totally separate website for persons feeling the need to vent…)
Keep up the marvelous work!
Well said. It is easy, I suppose, to leave an irate comment because you walk away and don’t have to have a conversation with the other person. Not so good for communicating though. I’m glad you’ve worked it out with fleegle although it sounds like there was very little to work out.
I think this was a good post in many points. I especially like your pointing out that trends operate in a community (like knitters) and that we are all allowed to be inspired (as long as we don’t intetionally steal).
I love your design, and many others’ too, whether they are made up or taken from a book or what-ever, and I love knit-blog-commenters, when they go all over in awe of the beauty that is everywhere. I think the best part of being a knit-blogger/designer is the wonderful sweet people that let you know they think your work is gorgeous… that there might happen to be a sour grape in the bunch is a fact of life, that all have to deal with… and popular knit-bloggers (like you!) will probably have to take on more than their share.
I’m happy that things are resolved, and glad that you posted this. If this clears up a bit, then you will have made many people happy!!!
Looking forward to the promised pictures (sorry for the long comment…)
I’ve always admired your grace & dignity; indeed, I believe that’s how we met. Your beautiful designs are just the icing on the cake!
Good for you for being so calm about it; if that had happened to me, I think I would have burst into tears and taken my blog down. And I’m usually quite grown up. Were all the comments from the same person using different names, do you think? The oddest thing about it to my mind is that the patterns aren’t actually all that alike; they’re both wavy but stitch for stitch they’re quite different, and they are at right angles to each other, so why would someone get themselves in a great state of righteous indignation and fire off all those comments? Perhaps they just like to start fights among other people and thought they could get you and Fleegle into an argument. There are some odd people in the world, and a lot of them have internet access, I suppose.
But good for you and I’m looking forward to both the new patterns.
Anne, you said that so well! Dignity and grace.
The good news:
you have a new friend – Fleegle
you weren’t intimidated by a moron
you’ve identified gracious ways of handling conflict
you have risen above the fray
The bad news:
you lost knitting time!
Chiming in on the “Class Act” response.
I often wonder at those who spew venom, and then when they don’t get an instant response, spew more.
Do they have nothing to do all day but watch for answers to their diatribes? Do they think that the folks to whom and about whom they write have nothing else to do either? And does it not occur to them that the flamees might just be counting to 10 or 100 or… until they’ve calmed down enough to respond civilly and responsibly?
Kudos to you… for being calm, for not letting this take over your life.. for being responsible in following up and then clarifying for the benefit of the rest of your readers. And kudos to Fleegle as well, for her appropriate response.
REAL designers know that similarities will occur. Heck, inventors find it happening all the time, why wouldn’t lace designers?
Sorry to hear about this Anne. I’m also alarmed these days at what people will say about someone else, from the “anonymity” of their computer. Your rebuttal is very well thought out, and I also think it’s great that you waited a bit, instead of posting a quick reply.
If only other people handled themselves with the same grace and restraint, I might consider participating in online forums a bit more.
The lack of civility by some people is astounding. I treasure your patterns and rush to see what you’re doing every day. I regret the incident but am pleased to see what wonderful and loyal fans you have. They are in the majority. I have shared your blog site with many friends who enjoy all that you do. We would all lose if you considered curtailing any of your activities just because of this incident.
I have begun avoiding most of the forums on Ravelry for that reason. Once people figured out how fast news and hate can spread there they use it as much as possible. Honestly I cannot believe how much the words scam or copy has been flung about. Knitting has a dark side and that is what I am seeing more of lately.
Well said.
Without a doubt, the thing I love most about your blog is watching the process. I know many designers can’t share the process until they are published, which I completely respect. But watching your designs come to life or reworked or even frogged is an amazing process to watch. It’s hard for me to believe that anyone could find faults with this wonderfully creative process. It’s even harder for me to believe that there are people out there who don’t realize that, although many, there exists a finite number of ways to combine knits and purls and every once in a while, two knitters might actually create something very similar.
Thank you for sharing your creativity Anne. You are a constant inspiration!
It saddens me that you were attacked in such a way, but you handled it beautifully! I often wonder if people who leave such hateful comments are as hateful in real life; if so, how very sad for them to be living such a miserable life.
I would like to chime in as well and say that how you handled yourself and your response in this post is so refreshing. The word class keeps coming up in these comments and I can’t think of a better word. While I absolutely love each and every design you produce, and I so enjoy following along with your design process, it’s that ‘class’ that I see in every post that keeps me coming back every day.
That’s one reason I hang out more on knittyboard than Ravelry – civility of discourse! Kudos to you for handling this so pleasantly – not that we would expect anything less! (on a happier note, about to turn the heel on tesserae – I LOVE those socks!)
It is indeed amazing that people are so quick to accuse. Indeed, why not just ask in an email and *wait* for an answer instead of assuming that everyone has blackberries or palmpilots and have nothing better to do than read and process answers immediately. And where have courtesy and politeness gone? Hum…. there are a lot of very angry people out there. I hope they don’t start poking with their knitting needles.
Well said. I’ve have my share of bad experiences online, and I’ve learned to avoid forums. Fortunately, I have not had to deal with such things on my blog, though I know it happens.
When I’ve posted bad reviews of things, it’s based on my own experience, and I try to explain why using simple facts as much as possible.
There was a pattern I followed once that had a fundamental flaw in regards to row counts. I contacted the author, and she was adamant that stockinette and garter have the same row counts – in reality, they have the same stitch counts but not the same row counts. The experience left me with kind of a bitter taste in my mouth when it comes to pointing out errors in a designers work, even when trying to do it privately so in order to help the designer “save face.”
Recently I knit a beautiful pattern only to have it fail due to the yarn, which was the yarn suggested in the pattern. I did post bad reviews on the yarn and the pattern without contacting the designer, publisher or the yarn company. I consider the project a learning experience for myself and will probably re-knit the yarn. I hate for someone else to have the same disappointment with the project or yarn that I did. I explained exactly what factors in the project/yarn combination that I believe made it such a disaster. I am sure it might have been handled differently, but I am not sure how.
This piece was well said and provided some great food for thought. Thank you for having the courage to say what you said.
Yikes! I’m so sorry that all that happened to you. I read Fleegles blog and quite honestly never noticed the similarities. I think what you guys are doing is unique in your own way.
You do realize that this means you’ve hit the big time — fame and popularity brings harsh “critics”.
I missed the kerfluffle, but wanted to say how sorry I am that you had to go through it. I’m saddened to see Ravelry being used as a threat against designers, sellers, and retailers, when communication and giving people the benefit of the doubt will yield good results 90% of the time. I’ve been glad to see people stepping in on Ravelry and defending others who’ve been accused unfairly.
People who lash out in that way don’t seem to realize that reputations, livelihoods, and good will are all put at risk in a medium where rumors and accuasations can take on a life of their own.
I’m glad to hear that you and the others involved have all been able to rise above it.
A little rain just makes everything greener in the end.
I miss hanging out! Jamie is officially a bike rider so i’ll be getting mine tuned up. We’ll have to plan a ride sometime soon.
You are truly a class act. very well done!
Preach it!!
Anne:
My first response was to splutter, “But! But! Anne is so NICE!”
As I read, it increasingly occurred to me that it would’ve been very easy for you to handle this privately with Fleegle and your accuser, and we would never have known about it.
I’m sure that this was not easy for you to write. But I’m so glad that you did. We often DO forget how easy it is to get out of control, and how unreasonably fast reactions (and expectations of reaction) can be online. Thank you for your thoughtfulness. Thank you for the reminder that there is almost always another side to a story. Thank you for doing the hard job. And thank you for being an AWESOME lady.
A classy response, as others have said. I have to count myself among those who don’t see a striking resemblance between the two patterns; even so, as you say, the stitch pattern is not what’s protected by copyright.
I’ve been meaning to comment for oh-so-long. Yours is definitely among my very favorite blogs, for both the writing and the patterns. If not for the knowledge that I would never have the time to make them, I would be buying practially all of your patterns! Thanks for all your lovely work.
I am sorry that this has happened to you and I agree with everyone before me about your classy approach to dealing with the situation.
Anne, you know in what high esteem I hold you, and it is exactly because you are the kind of person who handles a situation like this with this kind of grace and dignity. I’m sorry that you got flamed like this, and I appreciate your sharing your experience with us in such a thoughtful way. Maybe it will help all of us to remember that what we write in a moment of pique lasts a lot longer than our anger, and can do a lot of damage. I read all of the comments above, and love how positive and supportive they all are (but I must admit I was hoping for a graceful apology from the detractors!). Hang in there, girl, and don’t let the turkeys get you down!
Bravo, to you for putting it forth so succinctly and reasonably, and to you, fleegle and laura for continuing to enjoy the process.
Excellent post. Every time I run across one of these situations I feel like I must have slipped into the Twilight Zone. People really behave this way? Amazing.
I’m so sorry you had to go through this too… and what everybody else said about how well you handled it and your designs, etc.
What I’m worried about is the quick decent into mediocrity I see happening on the Ravelry forums. I’m in a couple of small groups, don’t participate in the forums and value the databases enormously.
I just don’t understand why people would choose aggressiveness over civility. There’s a professor at Johns Hopkins U. who is studying civility. his name is Dr. P.M. Forni and it seems he’s hit a sensitive spot in the current climate of public discourse.
hang in there and stay above the fray.
Anne – it’s good to see that you’re not going to bow down to that sort of treatment. What you have done, you naughty person, is make me want to knit both your scarf, and Fleegle’s shawl! Similarities will exist – of course they will when there’s a limited number of stitches out there, but did everyone who ever used the cats paw steal it from the original? Or who put a two stitch/yarnover top edge on a shawl? Is my current jumper a rip off? There are people out there, like you, and Fleegle who are creative, and this should not be stifled by someone who can only attempt to destroy. Thank you for introducing me to Fleegle, and for giving such an example between you of grace under fire.
You probably didn’t realize when you were writing this that you’d be spending the rest of the day responding to comments, did you? LOL Glad you got it out there, gf. It’s *amazing* how many people have come to visit my blog this morning. Hit counts are through the roof! LOL 😀 Hugs.
I am sorry that this happened to you. Your
reputation does not warrant those kind of accusations although I imagine that a mistake can
be made occasionally. Now that you got it
straigtened out, will you still put your patterns
on your website for sale? You had answered my
question before which was very nice of you. I
cannot buy until the 15th-long story, but I would
still like to have the pattern. Good luck
with your designing. You know the old saying
“you can please some of the people, some of the
time, but you can’t please all the people all of
the time”, or something like that. I’m glad you
checked it out for yourself.
or something like that.
HEY ANNE – all this nonsense was due to happen sooner or later with the number of designs put out lately but is terrible it had to be you hit with this ‘SHIT’, – you handled it well – anyone who knows you personally or has any sense of who you are through reading your blog knows what an ethical person you are – its too bad some angry people just can’t resist being jealous of others talent – anger is so destructive , and will burn them out – unfortunately stuff spreads fast with modern communication , and some people don’t take the time to suss out the source
understand and feel for you
yours in knitting —pat j
Forgive me for commenting without reading the preceding 66 comments, but I would like to compliment you on your well-thought-out, well-reasoned post.
Something that positively incenses me, is any knitting designer who thinks that she/he “owns” a particular stitch pattern or traditional knitting motif, simply because the designer has incorporated the pattern or motif into an original garment design that is protected under the current liberal copyright law. Knitting has been around for so long, there is virtually nothing new under the sun.
The best designers, the ones like yourself who are able to combine traditional stitch patterns into fresh, original designs, or who are able to employ traditional motifs/patterns in unexpected ways, generally understand that the building blocks of knitting are in the public domain, and thus belong to everyone. They also understand that two designers may come up with the same idea quite independently of each other. Even copyright law recognizes that ideas are not copyrightable, and that there is no violation of copyright unless there is “copying”. (There is, of course, at least one famous designer who doesn’t understand the “building blocks” principle.)
Both knitting bloggers and knitting blog commentators really need to understand this principle. There is no need to level charges of copying or plagiarism at any designer, simply because two designs share common elements, or appear at first (or even second) glance to be similar.
Well said. One of the reasons I enjoy your blog is that you share your design process, which I find fascinating. Anyone who has followed your blog would know that the accusations thrown at you were not based on fact. The point you made about trends is a very good one. Another reason I follow your blog is because you are obviously a person of quality. You handled the venomous accusations with dignity and grace. Like others have said, a class act. Sadly, there is an increasing number of knitting blogs that are being attacked in this manner and put in the position of having to write such posts reminding adults(?) to be civil.
Author! Thank you so much for saying this so well – after watching the mob mentality unfold on Ravelry the past few days, I was depressed to see how easily some people can become unpleasant when they’re anonymous. Anyone who has any knowledge of your work would also know of your integrity.
I’m sorry you had to deal with such uncalled for vehemence, kudos to you for being so professional, calm, and poignant in your response, as always.
and of course (((hugs)))
Keep up your fabulous work and DON’T let accusers try to keep you from doing that fabulous work. You have always!! written so insightfully – you give so much to your readers – THANKS!!
Anne- You should see some of the nasty comments I’ve received- always anonymously.
There’s nothing “new” under the sun. Just different interpretations- and you are the last person I would accuse of design theft. I work with traditional patterns and tweak them.
There are venting forums on Ravelry- but I would not waste my time or energy- there’s clearly alot of anger and bad feelings in cyber space- but I see no place for it in knitting.
We support you to the full-
In philosophy I believe the term is “synchronicity” when an “awareness” pops into consciousness in a variety of places that previously had no connection. It occurs in many things, not just design.
I am sorry you got treated so disrespectfully, Anne. My Mom always warned me that what goes around comes around and that what I give will return in full-measure. Be sure to publish their posts. Sounds like they need a little guidance.
It’s too bad you had to bear the brunt of someone’s kick at the wall. (my phrase for taking out one’s anger and frustration)
I am sorry that you had to ‘handle’ this issue at all.
And just like your designs, it was done with beauty and grace.
What in the world is wrong with people?? I’ve been saying this a lot lately. Everyone is out of control in this world. Breathe, people!
Well said.
If this were Ravelry, I’d click the ‘love’ button.
Wow! I enjoy your blog because you share SO much of your design process, which is fascinating to me. Its actually laughable that someone would accuse you of “stealing” a design.
Another well said from me!
I think someone who has so much time to make so many comments should find something more constructive to do with their lives. Really is it that life threatening that you don’t even give a designer a chance to respond to your comments. I don’t know I guess you just have to pick your battles and choose to fight for things that really make a difference.
Good for you! I didn’t read all those comments from that post – but good for you for standing up for yourself and designers!
Some people need to just chill out! Really! An email would have taken how long to write?
oh well, let’s just all move on!
Huh, I missed the whole thing, but I am sorry it happened. Your post is so very well said, and you have enriched the online knitting world by handling this event so gracefully,
I feel a little bit badly for Ravelry; if you spend enough (too much perhaps!) time online you will see this kind of thing happening in any large set of forums–and they are getting big. I think, if your forums have enough members, it’s really hard to prevent flaming/uproars without investing a lot of time and getting pretty heavy-handed with moderation. It’s a pretty fine line to walk, and I’m not sure it can even be done. So you are right–it behooves us all to behave better online, and think twice about what we say/do–as opposed to expecting the moderators to do it for us. We can’t, of course, control others’ behavior, just how we respond to it. As you have done here so beautifully!
What a terrific post! It’s funny, I just completed a survey about Ravelry and said that I spend much less time on the boards than I did initially because I don’t need reasons to like the world-at-large any less. I’m so glad to read these comments and to see that I’m not alone.
Anne, I have no idea about what was written, I think I’m glad I missed it, but I’m sorry you had to experience whatever happened. You are an inspiration to me as well as to many, many knitters out there, I’m sure. You have a most wonderful blog that I love to read daily, and your pictures of your adventures, whether it be knitting (to swoon for),food (yum, I wish we could sample it on line), flowers (I wish they were in my garden,I’m jealous), or a whimsey (like lace in the snow, wow), I just love the “positiveness” of it all – and this makes me want to read, take pictures, make scrumptious food, grow a garden (jealous again) and of course, knit MORE!!! Negativity is a waste of time and can be put in the trash. I go with the positive and Just keep to your beautiful blog writing, photos, and knitting… you are one elegant lady 🙂 God bless you 🙂
Thanks for your well spoken,intelligent commentary on this issue. I think its so sad that people behave in this manner. Whatever happened to talking with someone about a problem? Instead, we jump to public condemnation. Not a nice way to be.
Thanks for writing this. I haven’t experienced anything but positive on my blog (as yet) but you’ve modelled a very adult and calm response to what must have made you want to tear your hair out at the time.
I hope that if ever a troll ventures into my comments that I’m able to rise above it as you have.
This is just how the textile fashion industry is, despite how long it has existed, there are only so many ways to combine things, someone somewhere will eventually repeat the combination. but the combination isn’t the important part design that’s just the first step. It’s the style and the interpretation of that combination that makes that dress, shawl, sweater YOURS. Dior doesn’t own the silhouette of the “new look” he is just the best know for that look. Channel doesn’t own the perfectly tailored women’s suit. No one person owns “a look” but they do own the specific garment that evokes that look but made with their unique execution of that garment. That’s fashion, that knitting… there are only so many stitch patterns and way to many knitters…
WAY TO GO, ANNE!
Anne, I have been reading your blog for a few months now and truly enjoy learning how you process your designs. After reading today’s post, I want to also applaud your eloquence. Thank you.
Judging from the number and tone of the comments, I would say the world is on your side. No one benefits from jumping to conclusions or being anything less than civil when there appears to be a conflict of some sort. The world would need far fewer lawyers (of whom I am one) if everyone could address things as you have. Kudos.
Any one threatens or even snarks at my favourite designer and all around good Ann (without the ‘e) I shall immediately put at her disposal my cabana boys. All tall warrior lacrosse playing Mohawks who would be more than happy to come to her aid. My family is entirely at her beck and call.
And as an added bonus – they are all really hot when dressed in buckskin.
There’s far too much anger lately. Perhaps some people should pick up their knitting needles more, drink tea and get a real life.
So sorry that something negative like this happened but like everyone else has said you handled it with grace. Very much in awe of you.
Just wanted to send you some more positive vibes. Your blog is one of my favorites 🙂 and the little nothings are so much fun.
I forgot to say that anyone who knows your work knows that originality and creativity are not problems for you!
I am surprised that you would link your personal issue, which I am so pleased to see resolved [and agree was the result of an innappropriate comment left on your blog], with what is going on in the ravelry forums.
That came about because private e-mails and letters were not being responded to and issues were unresolved. Issues that have repeatedly occured for well over a year. Sometimes it is good that are this big, unpleasant and longterm are brought to a public forum, if only as a public service.
It ia amazing the effect this whole affair has had on the knitting community. for all the wrong reasons.
I do confess myself surprised by the knee jerk defence of the person at the heart of the ravelry debates by other designers and retailers, as if somehow a cticism of one is a criticism of all. That is far from the case.
When the dust settles, and maybe more of the truth comes out, we can all learn something from this.
Being “polite” in the face of bad buisness practices is not such a good thing, in my opinion.
All that being said, I would like to say how much I respect you as a designer and really love your designs. I have no reason, at all, to doubt your integrity.
I am chiming in a bit late, apparently. Your designs are unique and elegant ( have several!). So flarb on them, I say. On the bright side, we finally met each other, so the entire episode had a positive result 🙂
Anne, you have completely encapsulated the thoughts I couldn’t pin down on why it’s been so distasteful to see various discussions on Ravelry lately. I completely understand the desire to share bad experiences, or to seek redress, or to help others avoid bad experiences, but those threads seem to so quickly turn into threads with a downright nasty vibe.
The speed of internet-communication is a blessing and a curse. I don’t know what the answer is to the Ravelry discussions, but I think it can’t hurt for people (in general) to “think twice, post once”. What you say on the internet most certainly can and does affect people in ways that are sometimes difficult to understand completely when you push that “submit” button.
Thanks for writing this.
Hang in there. There is a lot of negativity out there lately, and you navigate it with ease and CLASS. Bravo.
Sorry!!! You do have the ‘e’!! My humblest apologies – it’s this irtfa’a – I’m obsessed. Can’t even eat or sleep.
Blame it on old age…
Hear, hear! Thanks for taking the time to speak out in support of original thinking (even if it may or may not look like what other people are doing…). 😉
Very, very well written. Thank you. I feel that through your post I have bared my soul too, because i wanted to say everything you just said.
Your response to this “brouhaha” is as classy and elegant as you and your designs. Brava! Looking forward to the next set of goodies coming our way!!
I realize that you have no idea who I am, I troll silently through the night drooling over your breathtaking lace designs 🙂 but I just had to come out of hiding to commend you on your classy response to the absolute douche-bagged-ness of the hecklers from your post the other day. Jumping to conclusions and making unfounded and unresearched accusations and threats are hallmark traits of the jealous and bitter. I realize that it’s hard to let that kind of treatment not bother you but please know that there are many, MANY, of us out here that have an immense amount of respect for your creativity and designs. By the way, I am SOOO in love with your Tiffany Blue scarf, it’s obscene 🙂 Keep up the amazing work!
hi Anne – sorry you had to go through that crap but you handled it with great grace! It’s interesting to see how different designers come up with very similar things in a short period of time without knowing what anyone else was doing – sorta like a particular idea is in the “air.” I read fleegle’s blog and never saw the similarity between the lace myself. I was surprised to read that *you* were surprised at how uncivil things seem to be getting on the internet – it’s always been that way! Writing on the internet is very dis-inhibiting for many people – being faceless and anonymous they say things they wouldn’t dare say to your face and there are little or no consequences to them. More than one great knitting group on yahoo has been felled by flames and nastiness. Ignore these loons and continue on, knowing that you and your work are appreciated and admired by 99.9% of us.
Well put, Anne. Life goes by so quickly, we all need to be reminded to stop, take a breath, and think before acting sometimes.
I dunno, is there something in the water? Seriously, when did knitters get so MEAN?
Frankly, there are only so many ways to configure a knit and a purl and it’s inevitable that some designs will be very similar.
I designed a pair of socks that I never saw anywhere before the design…afterwards I saw the same design or a close variant EVERYWHERE!
Wonderfully worded and beautifully handled!
You are a great example of what I used to adore about the online
knitting community.
These days I stay away from all *forums*
and disscussions on Ravelry and have even resorted to going to fiber festivals very early or very late (or not at ALL)to avoid the scathing comments as people peruse the labors of love of the vendors.
My LYS is now beginning to feel like an *entitlement zone* as people expect nothing short of five star spa treatment and a first name hand massage.
I hope your sanity is a swing back in the right direction.
Bless YOU!
Very well put! I’ve seen threads in Ravelry and other forums get completely out of hand in a matter of minutes. I back out of those threads quietly and click ignore. I’m not going to have a few ugly people ruin my knitting and visiting time.
well said, and i’m glad that you and fleegle were able to work things out. there can be such a tendency to react to things, that sometimes small issues get overblown.
i’m always a bit astounded by the way the internet brings out nastiness in people. i don’t quite understand the disconnect between what is online and ‘the real world’. at work, if i have an issue with something or someone, i have to be polite and thoughtful about whatever i say – i can’t just rant or spout off because i’m peeved. this actually happened this week – a product rep went around our backs with a client and i had to call him and let him know – firmly but in a professional manner – that what he did was inappropriate and we were not happy. i couldn’t just spout off and say ‘you’re terrible because you undercut us’ or tell everyone else (i.e. the client) ‘he’s such a terrible person.’ not only would this have been ineffective, we would have looked bad. yet too often people don’t seem to transfer this sort of thinking over to the ‘net. i sometimes consider myself guilty of speaking without thinking (which usually involves an embarrassing faux pas) but online, there seems to be too much typing without thinking.
Anne – I enjoy your blog for a number of reasons. The knitting, the designs, your sense of color. Your designs just blow me away. I have every intention to knit one of your shawls as soon as I finish my wip’s. I have commented before never expecting that you would have the time to respond. This brings me to the reason I read your blog, you are a class act. I don’t know you personally but you sense of decency comes through loud and clear.
I’m sorry this hahppened to you but we got your back!
And, personally, I don’t see the similarities.
Brava! Anne, ou are thoughtful, eloquent, and a peacemaker…isn’t knitting supposed to bring us peace and joy? Thank you for so graciously reminding me of that, and teaching me, as you do in every entry, something about designing, knitting, and being creative and authentic. Cheers!
Thanks for your gracious example, Anne. 🙂
Thank you very much for writing this entry. it was very well said!! I have been clicking back and forth between your scarf and Fleegle’s site to try to look for the similarities, and I don’t see it. Thank you for all the great writings, photos, and wonderful patterns!!
Anne, dear, you must have been “ready to burst” after reading through those comments. I credit you with writing a thoughtful, intelligent response. Well done! And this outpouring of support from your readers must be gratifying and validating.
(new email address – same me in Vermont)
Some folks just can’t resist a good “blamestorm”, and pile on like football players on a hapless kicker. Having experienced this at work (seriously 47 emails from four people complaining about the same damn thing over a 90 min email absence? The hell?), I empathize. Would that intarwebs etiquette be a prereq to wandering the electronic byways, you know? Nice example of cooperation and good communication on the part of the three designers!
I’ve always found your designs so graceful. It shouldn’t surprise me, then, to read of your very graceful handling of a somewhat ugly situation. I continue to be impressed with your work and your character. Well done. And I’m sorry that the whole thing undoubtedly took away from precious knitting time.
I almost wasn’t going to comment when I saw how many others already had (knowing how meticulous you are about responding to comments) but I had to say that this is the most articulate, civilized and graceful discussion of the issue of civil language and behavior in cyberspace I have ever read, and thank you for taking the time to set it down.
Anne, I don’t understand how one can accuse you of stealing the pattern. A link to a similar design is not a sufficient proof. Well, all lace patterns are combinations of knit, purl, yarn over etc, aren’t they? Having seen your beautiful scarf I felt I had seen a similar pattern before. I opened an Estonian book of lace patterns (published in 1995) and found two very similar patterns. So what? It would be absurd to assume that either you or the author of the book have “stolen” the pattern: presumably, you haven’t have a clue that such a book exists. Do what you are doing, your work is so impressive!
I totally love your thoughts on this issue! What you said is so right. It’s really easy to shoot off the cuff, but is it the right thing to do? There is a saying – “Think before you act.” Would that we all do more thinking, and carefully consider how we word our thoughts, before letting these out to the public. Sometimes it’s better to let our thoughts remain hidden if the results might end up in a world of hurt for all.
Indeed, you are a class act, Anne.
I hope that the person who was so irate duly apologized, but I would not be surprised if they just disappeared. Perhaps they will learn when they take up a “cause” to fully check their facts before going on their tirade.
And, you know, the phrase “Great minds think alike” is based in solid scientific fact. All over the world, inventors often create the same enormous concept at exactly the same moment…. with absolutely no interaction.
The integrity of your life speaks for itself my friend. Be not concerned.
Anne, I am sorry you had to be subjected to the ill behaviour of what my mother would have called “an ill-loved child”. She believes any loved child would have parents caring enough to teach them good maners:-)
Your work is beautifull and your response rises above the petinesss of some people.
Amen. And thank you.
Beautifully done.
Well spoken. Well said. Beautifully articulated. and all other accolades for addressing a difficult issue head on. I have noticed the “mean speak” trend here and there o blogs, forums and etc, and it always saddens and disheartens me. I have had a crazy design/production schedule this last month and just got back to reading all my favourite blogs today, and wow, look at all the events! So, three cheers for Anne!
Amen! Some people have WAAAYYY too much time on their hands and spend it so unwisely.
Thank you for not throwing your hands up in the air and giving up your blog or your designs…I’d sorely miss them if they (& you) were gone.
I don’t understand how those leaving the accusatory comments could have come to the conclusion that you based your travelling vine pattern on Fleegle’s feather and fan shawl??? Considering they’re interested in knitting enough to read knitting blogs, I would have expected them to be able to tell the difference. It was very gracious of you not to comment on this. I can’t say I would have done the same when publicly attacked and I admire your restraint. Well done.
Graciously and wisely said. I’m impressed by the way you handled this.
LOVE the new scarf designs, by the way, and the chance to check out Fleegle, whom I’d never seen before.
Well said.
I never understood why some people think they can use blog comments to accuse and attack. In my opinion, it’s kind of cowardly.
One thing I love about knitting is taking that same tool/skill set and seeing what everyone can do with it. It’s part of the fun.
Thank you for this post… you’re not the only one concerned about the trend of “Avenge now! Flail now! Consider… eh, AVENGE! MORE! NOW NOW NOW!!!”
Your elegant response to this… situation? kerfuffle? is one that, in an ideal world, could be bottled and gently ladled all over the internet… goodness knows it could use a whole lot of calmness, rationality, and above all patience. Especially these days– we aren’t all wired for 24/7 internet access (and I really hope we aren’t, ever ever ever) and the most disturbing part of this is the attempt to hold others hostage to the über-speedy response, no matter what else might be going on. Like work. Or any other parts of an actual life.
Um. This is getting a bit long… too much of this nonsense going on lately, and nerves have been struck. Anyway. Well done, and thanks again for writing this post. I’d totally bake you delicious treats for a month, were there a non-fiddly way to get them to you.
Thank you for a well-reasoned and reasonable discussion of this problem. Daily life is frustrating, but as you say, what does this angry behavior *get* anyone.
Anne I have alyways admired you as a designer and person, but after reading that thoughtful and insightful post I not admire you deeply as a potential role model.
Over the past week I have observed how threads as you described can escalate in to mob rule and was horrified.
You have gone a long way to restoring some of my equilibrium and faith in humanity. Posting should be like DIY, measure twice, cut once. Words do cut and people should remember that.
I love your ‘little nothings’ range, very much Anne. Keep up all the good work. I don’t know Laura, but know for sure that you and Fleagle are nothing but Ladies through and through 🙂
Keep well. 🙂
not = now, apologies
Well said, Anne. I’m glad the issue was resolved to everyone’s satisfaction, and I hope the irate commenter is sufficiently embarrassed by the situation to give it some extra thought next time they are tempted to jump on that high horse.
Oh dear. What a mess! I’m so sorry that this happened to you–but so pleased that your cool head prevailed. 🙂
Very well said!
Honestly, I’m surprised that MORE patterns by different designers don’t have more similarity, given the “set tools”, as you put it so eloquently. Since stitch patterns do not have copyright, it’s only natural that designers may, at times, use the same stitch patterns in their designs. I’m pretty disturbed by this flaring up of what appears to me to be an inflated feeling of “entitlement” of people on ravelry, as seen in regards to “free” patterns that may have disappeared, etc., and snap judgements made. It’s like reading the tabloids and believing that they are the truth, always. In fact, I’m AFRAID at times to post in the forums, for fear of the witchhunting coming over my way. Thank you, Anne, for adressing this increasingly serious issue with grace and eloquence. Keep on designing!
It’s very depressing to note the speed with which witch hunts begin. You have handled this openly and gracefully – much like your knitting. Thank you.
Well said. I was also a ‘victim’ like this; not on my knitting blog, but on my ‘other’ blog because I linked to a knitter’s blog and created a post on mine based on something she said that I had a different view about. She retaliated by writing something unpleasant and linking to me, creating all kinds of nasty comments by people that had never seen my blog before! While I did have some supporters, and hopefully new readers, I was surprised at the attitude of some people. Just because you can hear a conversation around you doens’t mean you NEED to inject your opinion!
Great post!
It’s the same in cooking. There are only so many ways you can roast a chicken and, yet, how many cookbooks feature a recipe for roasted chicken?
The problem I have with the tone of some of the “advice” being so freely handed out is that the posters seem to not realize that they aren’t speaking to a five-year-old who decided to paint in the living room even though they know better. They are speaking to a fellow adult who is entitled to their own opinions.
Brava! Your response was graceful, thoughtful and carefully considered, as any of us would have expected. The fact that you owed no one an explanation makes it doubly so. I don’t always go through all the comments here and missed the accusation. Oddly enough, I had seen the post on Ravelry and didn’t make the connection. No names or specifics were given, only a reference to a Famous Designer. It was a very short-lived thread, mercifully, and most of the posts wisely pointed out that all the facts weren’t known. What a bizarre turn of events. Sorry it had to happen to you.
What a classy lady you are, Anne…
Keep on keepin’ on!
Well said – however I still not get how people can become so heated… for really not such a big thing to start with.
Let’s keep our calm everyone. We are not saving lives here !!!
Beautifully said and very gracefully handled Anne. It’s sad how much of this seems to be making the rounds out in blogland and on Ravelry. I’m sorry this happened to you. Thanks for putting it out there for people to see, and hopefully providing some “stop and think” before pounding out their poison pen e-mails and pushing SEND.
Ditto all the comments on grace and class. I want to say,though, that it is not enough to just wonder why people are so mean these days, nor to say they have too much time on their hands. And I think we can be assured that the commenter is not reading these comments. What troubles me is how justified people feel that they are. The commenter felt justified that the conclusion to which she had jumped was correct and unassailable. It’s the unwillingness to consider that there may be other points of view that is troubling and, yes, is kind of epidemic in the world all around us. Were I innocent of such self-justification, self-righteousness, and conclusion-jumping I could, I suppose, cast aspersions. I am not innocent of any of the above and I feel for all involved in this tangle. You, Ann, and your accuser; all of us who have ever behaved this way, because we all have.
“What I’m worried about is the quick decent into mediocrity I see happening on the Ravelry forums.”
I posted a response
on Ravelry.
Just one more knitter who prefers serene, rational discussion here to thank you for this post. Well handled and well said. I love your designs and Fleegle’s and am so happy that you are both working and maintain amicable ties despite someone’s attempts to pit you against each other.
I’m sorry that you got caught up in someone’s lack of understanding about knitting design. It really is too bad that people are so quick to accuse, especially in a craft where designs overlap so frequently. I have seen several patterns for the print ‘o the wave stole; there are several versions online, I bought one from a yarn store that said they’d made it up, and most recently I discovered the stitch pattern in a Duchrow book from the early 1900’s. I don’t think that anyone “stole” the pattern; it has just resurfaced several times as a natural (and beautiful!) extension of the vine pattern. When we lose our openness to sharing, we lose the freedom to create. Please, continue to create, and I doubt that anyone that knows your blog or your work (which is incredibly unique, by the way…) will pay much heed to the mudslinging, or allow it to go unchallenged. Knit on!
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